Is the use of ethanol as an alternative fuel a corrosive pipe dream? It could be thanks to ethanol’s widely unknown dirty little secret. The infrastructure for transporting oil or fuel is through the use of metal pipelines, tanker truck or railway tanker. But there’s just one slight problem. High concentrations of ethanol are corrosive to the metal pipelines. When you stop to think about it, that’s actually a major problem.
A smooth transition to ethanol seems highly unlikely since ethanol has a water affinity problem. That is, it absorbs water. Ethanol corrosion in metal pipes can lead to internal stress cracking and can accelerate damage to weld joints. 
The damage can be extremely difficult to detect and very costly to repair. Due to ethanol’s corrosive characteristics, production may not be able to meet ethanol demand soon enough.
The U.S. may have large supplies of corn or biomass to convert to ethanol, but without using pipelines, how will the massive quantities of ethanol be transported to gas stations and the end consumer? In the short term, the transportation of ethanol will be handled by railway or tanker truck. But in the long term, a whole new infrastructure of pipelines may need to be built to transport ethanol. That’s not going to happen over night and it will certainly add to the costs of using ethanol as an alternative fuel.
So is ethanol corrosive to PVC pipe? If not, maybe we could line up the Plumbers Guild, give them a ton of PVC pipe and doping compound. They could construct another pipeline along top or side the existing pipelines in a matter of days. Is this ridiculous and far fetched? Of course. But it’s strange ideas like this that may lead to a solution. We could construct the world’s first “Moonshine Pipeline” to transport the ethanol right along side the oil.
33 Comments to "Ethanol’s Corrosive Little Secret"
Please share your thoughts
Filed in: Pipelines, Alternative Energy, Renewable Fuel, Ethanol
Is there a reliable, peer-reviewed source for this assertion? Under all conditions I am aware of (Ph.D. Physical Chemistry, Rutgers), ethanol is far less corrosive to metals commonly used in pipes than is water. Does this mean that our water supplies are in imminent danger?
As a former pro drag racer, I can tell you that I ran far more corrosive fuels than ethanol, without any serious or insurmountable problems.
Ethanol should be viewed as a supplemental,and transitional fuel,until other technologies are ready.Hydrogen, both for internal combustion and fuel cells, will solve our CO2 emissions problems.
Our very National security,and our economic independence depends on alternatives to oil fuel for transportation purposes.This is a critical situation! Stop the crabbing, nay-saying and negativism.This something we can do,in a short time.It should have been done 30 years ago,after the first oil crisis. JUST DO IT!
Every time I see this issue raised, I wonder which uninformed person wrote the article. Transporting ethanol is very doable. Just ask the Brazilians.
In fact, I wonder why we don’t do what the Brazilians have done for years now. They already have an ethanol distribution infrastructure. It really is not someone’s “dirty little secret” as the article states. It’s just a lot of petroleum money going into our legislatures campaign funds. Hmmmm.
Modifications to automobiles include stainless steel fuel tanks and teflon coated fuel hoses as well as calibrating the engine control system.
Use polymer, use plastic tankers, they could hold more because they are bigger.
Anyways aluminum will not rust so you can get that easily, the tankers can carry a reactive chemical such as gasoline so they can definitely carry ethanol, their probably already made of aluminum.
Stop trying to scare people.
This article is so devoid of actual content, no wonder we, Americans, are so clueless about plausible and possible futures that are not based on Big Oil determining our destiny. Who is the author of this marketing piece? On the bright side, maybe we can soon begin to take pleasure cruise vacations in the warm waters of the north pole!
This article is obviously written by some oil backers. In other words, it’s total crap. It’s just published to raise FUD. They’re following M$’s very successful techniques.
As mentioned in the above, the Brazilians have successfully adopted ethanol with a great degree of success. This is just Big Oil trying to delay their inevitable demise - and inevitable it will be.
These inflated fuel costs are the last gasp - a last attempt to gouge the faithful public which has supported them for these many years.
There seems to be an increasing amount of entrepeneurs entering the development of ethanol based transportation. There is a profit to be made and the issue of mass transportation of this very viable fuel is a moot point.
The objections raised by the article are very weak and therefore dismissive.
Ethanol has cleaning properties that tend to clean out junk in pipes, hoses, tanks, fuel lines and anything else it is transported or used in, but it is not corrosive. The corrosion article is just another attempt by those opposed to ethanol to discredit the product.
At least as far as rail cars go, all tankers are lined with a material to prevent the corrosiveness, if any of the products that they might haul.
If this were a concern, pipelines to can and some are already lined to prevent wear and corrosion.
This whole argument/thesis is a non starter.
Being a person who has worked in the Pipeline world of Petro and Ethanol there are a few things that seem to always go un-mentioned about the use of Ethanol
Positive
1. Increase in HP
2. Renewable energy resource
3. Local Energy source
Negatives
1. Lower miles per gallon
2. loves water
3. is corrosive but additives are used to bring the ph of the ethanol to ph of 7 that of water
4. so much additive is used that it can cause fuel injector problems, plus other host of issuse about 12 lbs of heavy syrup like property per 1000 barrels.
AND number 5. The one that no one talks about “WHAT IS THE BI-PRODUCT OUT OF THE EXHAUST?”
Don’t Know…..Its formaldehyde!!!
So like us in Minnesota that have used 7to 10% ethanol in our gas for several years you can find this in our ground water, soil, air in high enough concentration to exceed, in many populated areas, the level of exposure allowed by the federal government but that’s ok cause we are saving the use of petro. So if you see the cancer rates go up in this state don’t say I did not warn you.
Personal I am for the use of Ethanol if we can capture the bi-product.
As for corrosion and the transportation of ethanol. Additives can make it safe to transport however there is not enough space in pipelines or storage tanks (capcity/infastructure) to handle the transportation and also there is not yet enough plants to handle the increasing demand. The cost is going to be enormous and companies don’t have the money to build what is going to be required. It will have to be the government to build the pipelines, tanks, plants if its real going to catch on.
Its here to stay but someone better start talking about the negative as well as the positives.
On MTBE …..just don’t…DON’T use it. It never goes away, it Ether and I have seen personal people get absolute seriously sick from being even close to its vapors. If you have ever been on top of a 50 foot tank at about 60,000 barrels of the pure stuff on a hot summer day you would go pale white with fear. And it is extremely more corrosive then Ethanol. Teflon gaskets where about the only thing you could use to prevent valve flanges from dissolving and leaking after exposure to the stuff.
Why does someone always have to find a “dirty little secret” when they don’t fully look into other ways to fix the problem? Ethanol is a wonderful gasoline supplement and its another way to keep the American economy and farmland booming. Why do we always have to look to the dark side of things - oil isn’t going to be around forever you can’t grow it like corn. Why does no one want to keep business in America? Well I’m sure if ethanol is deemed safe we’ll buy corn from china instead of from the mid western “corn belt” states.
Sorry to vent, just a small town country girl who’s trying to keep her farm.
You always hear about BIG OIL companies and their money. The problem is not them but HOW MANY OF OUR NATIONS LEADERS MAKE THEIR MONEY FROM THE BIG OIL COMPANIES!!!!!!! If the US would have continued to produce, refine and mass produce Ethanol back in the 70’s Idea the BIG OIL COMPANIES would be out of business now and so would a lot of our politicians. Mad IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS AND IT WILL BE ABOUT MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS!!!!!! Mad Shocked Our national leaders are not going to back something that will take food from their families Shocked Mad , but we have to take food from ours just to be able to put gas in our cars to drive to work to pay for their paychecks Evil or Very Mad
I understand that it takes more ethanol to go the same distance that a gallon of gasoline will take a car. Gasoline is more powerful!
I guess people that like ethanol are like people that buy hybrids, they are not good at math.
Jack Yalden
Did you ever hear of a blended ethanol which can be pipeline transported and then separated at the distribution point. That way you can use the metal pipes and not worry too much. I love college boys and girls with a classic education and no practical oil field experience. God they are funny when they almost blow stuff up. And panic at the sight of sour gas in the air. And they are all so green oriented until they actually earn some green. And when they get the degree and the green and they forget all about being green and spending the green they have earned. Earned hahahahaha. They sit on their asses in the pickup and frac the pit, instead of the well.
Solar, wind, hybrid, nuclear, fuel cells. and ethanol.
Bigger, better, faster.
The real dirty little secret is that the plants used to create the ethanol actually absorb far more greenhouse gases than are produced when the ethanol is burned. The end result is a decrease in global warming. You’re going to worry about the pipes? What a bunch of crap. Once again big oil is dicking us around. Have you seen the price of fuel lately? Take a look at Iceland and their use of bio-diesel. In short order they will be free of the middle east noose, and will not contribute to the real problem (global warming). When your (or your relative’s) house is under water you can remember how you bitched about the material the pipes were made of. Oh yeah, check out the weather on Venus today, and keep worrying about ethanol’s corosivity.
hmmmm - according to the Renewable Fuels Association the California Environmental Policy Committee has found that using ethanol reduces the amount of formalhyde compared to gasoline.
Look here at the bottom of the page -
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/facts/environment/
Ethanol made from coal is corrosive, Ethanol made from grains is not!!!
It’s true that gasoline burns longer but Ethanol burns clean and I like to breath clean air how about you ? F the oil people run Grain made Ethanol and make the world a better place !!
The article on ethanol’s dirty little secret was written by someone who doesn’t clearly understand the issue. The issue is stress corrosion cracking in fuel grade ethanol, not metal loss corrosion. See API publication 939D for a state of the art review of the subject, including a list of documented cases of cracking failures in storage tanks, piping, and pressure vessels. It should be available on the API website. This is an area of ongoing investigation by the American Petroleum Institute and the Renewable Fuels Association. Arm yourself with some facts and knowledge on the subject so that you can have an informed discussion.
Ok let me sum up my ideas on everything I have gathered here.
1. The corn industry produces corn (go figure)
2. You take the corn and press it for the oil to make bio-diesel
3. You take the leftovers and produce ethanol (ferment and then distill) - so why isn’t jack Daniels under the gun with the e.p.a. ? )
4. As for pipe corrosion I have seen a very good method for relining water mains that should work very well with the ethanol problem with very little research.
5. Take the left over mash from the distillation and process for livestock feed. (much as jack Daniels does Wink )
So what is the real problem here? Other than getting people to accept mass transit and give up the cars in the first place.
Alternate materials (plastic or aluminum pipe/linings) if needed to transport ethanol should also be included in the final cost. PVC is made from oil and aluminum is one of the most energy intensive products to produce.
Shell Oil recently criticized the use of food products for fuel:
http://shorterlink.co.uk/5658
Any first year chemistry student should known the answer to this questions. All one needs to do is look it up in the back of the CRC Handbook of Physics and Chemistry. The tables list the solubility, diffusivity, and other physical and chemicil properties for all alcohols. There are many materials that are widely available and low cost to produce that may be used for the transportation of ethanol, furthermore metal pipes can easily be coated internally and externally to protect them from the corrosive nature of the environment and materials they transport or store. Its time to stop make excuses and start making progress.
Granted stainless or plastic fuel tanks and lines will work, however I continually have to clean carbs and replace fuel pump diaphrams. Both directly caused by the ethanol in fuels. Am I to tell every boater out there that they must repower their boat to a newer injected engine?
Same problems with our small engines, lawn mowers, chainsaws, weed wackers, anything with a carburator.
Not to mention the heating issue with small air-cooled engines.
Maybe I should just shut up, it is job security for mechanics.
Is ethanol required in av-gas? NO Why not? The FAA doesn’t want any of the older small craft with carburated airplane engines to fail and fall out of the sky!
If ethanol is corrosive for metal pipes, is is also corrosive for metal automobile parts (engines, carbuators, gas tanks, etc.)?
Jack did you know you can make ethanol in your back yard you don’t have to dig a hole in the ground thousands of feet deep for oil you go to your garden and pull a bushel of corn and run it through copper pipes first you taste it, if it passes your taste then you pour the balance in your tank.and drive on with a grin on your face ,knowing it was home grown here in America.
While I am all for finding different fuel sources, I do think that ethanol production is a method for petro companies to further increase energy costs, not to deplete them. It takes a hell of a lot of more energy to produce ethanol! Farming machinery all runs on petro products and you need a lot of fuel to fulfill the demand of more corn for ethanol production. Plus, the factories that manufacture ethanol are notorious for being energy hogs, especially with water and electricity. I lived in Iowa and understand why most Iowans are excited for ethanol. It helps the local economy, something that Iowa needs desperately, but it doesn’t take a scientist to know that adding this addition to fuel propels the need for further oil dependence. There are other ways–electric cars were a fab idea and should be reconsidered. Until we have legislators that are not getting paybacks from big oil, we will continue to lack further progress in this issue.
The methanol/ ethanol solution is a myth.
If you read any articles about using alcohol as an alternative fuel in the United States, read carefully.
The issues aren’t about reducing pollution, or other environmental concerns, it’s about “energy independence”.
There’s no way to get around the fact that any form of alcohol takes more energy to create than it carries as a fuel source.
Corn especially. You have to plow the fields with tractors (diesel fuel), you have to pump the water to irrigate the fields (more diesel, coal, or heavy oil to generate electricity to run the pumps), You have to harvest the crop (more diesel fuel for the tractors), You have to transport the crop (more diesel fuel for the trucks to transport the harvest, Then you have to process the crop to create the fuel (heat requires some form of fuel in order to be created or electricity). At every stage producing alcohol, creates more pollution than it solves through the use as an automotive fuel.
The next issue you have with growing alcohol are the absolute dependence on the weather and climate conditions for good crops. You think fuel prices are unstable now? What happens when the U.S. is dependent on alcohol fuels for energy and tornadoes wipe out an entire corn crop in Oklahoma, or a drought hits the mid west or the growing portions of the southwest? Fuel prices will go through the roof, and just like todays mega giant oil corporations… The consumers will reap the cost of the disaster while the mega giant agribusinesses reap the profits. Don’t forget the Dust bowl era of the early 1900’s, it’s what fueled the major population growth of the western United States during the time period, and it had nothing to do with mans impact on the environment. Nature decided to take a rain break for about 15 or 20 years in the mid west, it happened once, it will happen again.
The next issue you have has to do with the utilization of land. Sometimes land gets “used up” literally all of the organic matter in the soil gets used up by the crops being crown on it and it becomes dead soil, or the land becomes contaminated by salts from excessive watering (not meaning watering for the crops, but meant excessive watering for the normal condition of the area). In many areas of crop growth you have a top soil sitting on top of a hard pan that prevents the salts from dissipating through the lower portions of the crust. The only way to alleviate the problem is to do heavy and deep rip plowing which take massive amounts of energy to do (heavy diesel tractors are needed to pull heavy augers through the earth some times as deep as 12 feet to break up the hard pan), which also lead to erosion problems and potential ground water contamination from the seepage of insecticides, and fertilizers (petroleum derived in the vast majority) through the break up of the hard pan which would normally protect the water aquifers.
The next issue of land utilization has to do with people. Humans and crops tend to do the best in the same climactic zones, unfortunately humans take precedence over crops when it comes to living space, if you want classic examples of this just take a look at Mexico city, most of the outlying suburbs are formerly agricultural areas, the same goes with all major urban centers, it’s called urban sprawl. What happens is crops are displaced by humans seeking living space close to the places where they live, which in the end leads to situations as described in the previous paragraph.
The best way to deal with the energy issues throughout the United States is through energy diversification. Unfortunately it seems that the senate and house of the United States are just like the people of the United States, they seem to be able only to focus on one issue or item at a time, and at this time it seems to be corn derived alcohol.
What needs to happen, is that in States where there are cheap and abundant coal resources, those resources should be utilized in those States and subsidized by the federal government, in States where there are oil shale deposits the technology needs to be developed to utilize those deposits as a fuel source, and subsidized by the federal government, in States where there is a surplus of agricultural products there should be an effort to utilize the surplus products either as alcohol or bio diesel, in States where there is a surplus of sunshine or wind, there should be massive development of solar energy resources (wind is solar energy), not just experimented with.
The last issue has to do with the wast products of major urban centers and the use of land for trash dumps and recycling. Unfortunately recycling leads to surpluses in recyclables that drives down the prices of commodities. The one issue though of just plain trash in urban and suburban centers, paper, plastics, food, cooking oils, yard trash (such as grass clippings, tree branches, leaves etc.) can all be converted to bio diesel fuel, simply and easily (no one talks about it, I wonder why?), with a minimum amount of energy, or actually a surplus of energy (respectively).
The only “issues” are that the prices of fuel commodities would go through the floor, the same with energy commodities, and that the great unwashed masses of the United States of America have been “socialized” into the belief that all diesel engines are dirty stinky, fuel guzzling, gross polluters that should all be placed into a heap and melted down. When the truth of the matter is that diesel engines, by design are some of the most efficient internal combustion engines ever produced (up to 70% efficiency) which means less fuel burned per kilowatt which also means less emissions (cumulatively).
A spark ignition internal combustion engine (read alcohol burner) that could reach 25% efficiency (not considering the energy needed to produce the alcohol), would be considered a massive technical innovation and there would be a mad rush to develop the technology. The only way to improve the efficiency of an alcohol burning engine is through the increase of the compression ratios to the point where they reach the levels of diesel engines (oxides of nitrogen emissions), at which point alcohol still only has about the 30% of the caloric value of diesel fuel, which means you will still be burning more fuel to create the same work. Who profits from that, I wonder?
The answer to energy independence lies in diversification. I wish I could envisage a day where at a fuel station, there are fuel pumps for regular gasoline of all grades, diesel, alcohol, bio-diesel. It would be incredibly politically correct. Fuel for each political persuasion, and the opt out people could just plug in their electric cars at home and stay away from the whole mess.
I’m done with this diatribe.
Water is corrosive, look at all the water mains that burst. If ethanol is more corrosive than water, what an environmental hazard we will have. As far as peer reviewed sources they go to the highest bidder. It’s all in the money for future studies!
I am sure glad you all have never taken my Organic Chemistry classes, since there would be a lot of “F”s in the stack!! Laughing
OK, here’s the simplified scoop on the corrosive behavior of ethanol (which, BTW, is invariant to the source: 100% ethanol is the same regardless of it’s origin; it’s the very tiny contaminants that may differ, e.g. benzene vs thiophene, etc).
Ethanol is CH3-CH2-OH in formula. It does have a very high affinity for water, and is used in research and industrial laboratories as a “drying” or dehydrating agent, as it will “pull” water out of other solvents and the air.
In the presence of heat, water (even a very small amount), and Oxygen (O2), ethanol will undergo an oxidation, first to CH3-C(=O)H (acetaldehyde), which is very reactive; second, this aldehyde itself undergoes oxidation even faster than ethanol to yield acetic acid, CH3-C(=O)OH, which is corrosive (recall that acetic acid is the bitter component of vinegar, which is a very dilute solution thereof).
This reaction is known to be catalyzed by a variety of metals, and Iron and Chromium are among them. Thus, under the right conditions, if a metal is slightly weakened at the surface from some other mild oxidation, if it remains in contact with the acetic acid for enough time, then you will have further deterioration of the metal surface. It is possible that the slight acetic acid contamination can cause corrosion problems on more reactive metals, such as aluminum, copper and its alloys. The potential concern for this corrosive behavior could be obviated by the proper lining of the conduits and containers by inert materials such as PTFE.
Therefore, as your ethanol goes merrily from the plant to its destination, a very small amount of the solvent undergoes this reaction, especially at higher temperatures. It is also possible that acetic acid if formed in the underground tanks at your gas station, and even in your gas tank itself.
Now, it is clear that acetic acid is not a desirable component of auto fuel. The quantities in any given vehicle are usually very small. The quantities which could accumulate in large depositories/tanks, could be more substantial, and require remediation steps to eliminate. Clearly, ethanol is a good alternative to Mid-East oil, but it is not the ultimate energy panacea.
As a scientist with multiple doctorates in chemistry (Organic and PChem), I try to sort out the facts first before getting into a lather about the political implications. It’s a good habit, and I recommend it to others…
I like the explanation on Ethanol given by “The DoctorIsIn.” However, may I invite you to visit Ethanol Forum topic “One Universal Energy Technology.” Go to latest reply. Scroll down to the technical explanation for a very revealing explanation of a new energy technology that is astounding. This technology has been known in Washington for several years. Perhaps this is the intention of this site as explained by laramaral - introduce new ideas and energy research technology to the people.
This is nothing that can be overcome with new technology.There are pros and cons to everything. I’m 36 years old.Ive heard all this before in the late 70s.
Oil had there chance they know there end is near.They will do anything to shoot down the competition,discredit doom and gloom.
Along with our own government want to discuss and talk till they are blue in the face.This could be resolved within 2 years if they would get behind this as much as war.
We the people would be better off.I really hope everyone at all levels of government sleep well at night,knowing they are failing the people.
Although ethanol is no panacea, it, and other alternative fuels provide an answer to this country’s voracious need for fuel to meet our desired lifestyle choices. For those offering negative comments regarding ethanol: give us a better solution. We need it. Pointing out problems of alternatives that could help us eliminate the global climate crisis we are facing, without offering solutions beyond business-as-usual (think fossil/carbon based fuels) doesn’t help. Deny it or not, we are facing a serious climate crisis and ethanol, among many other (and better) alternatives, does reduce our carbon load significantly. Before you go and spout ethanol’s downsides, why don’t you fully research the problems currently created by using fossil fuels? The solution, ultimately, isn’t ethanol, but it is a start. Keep driving your SUV and burning fossil fuels and see where we are in 5 to 10 years. I bet you’ll eat your words.
There are a lot of ways to look at the energy usage issues with ethanol, but very few of the experts nay saying the viability ethanol as a petroleum alternative seem to have much awareness of other alternative energy sources. Tying ethanol plants in to wind power grids and using solar collectors to generate heat for the distillation processes could create a large input of now untapped energy. At this point in time, corn derived ethanol may not be as energy efficient as we want it to be, but if you look at other infrastructures such as Brazil’s sugar cane based ethanol economy, you can see the direction we can head in if we apply the best available bio-tech and engineering to the problem of energy efficiency.
There is a new energy technology that doesn’t need or use ethanol, therefore, no need to worry about ethanol pros or cons.
This new energy technology has been proven by NASA but the DOE refuses to fund or conduct further research. It is called Cavitation Ignition Bubble Combustion (CIBC) or burning a small air bubble less than the size of a “BB.”
This new innovative energy technology is cheap, plentiful, convenient, highly efficient, environmentally friendly (emits no greenhouse gases), doesn’t require the use of any foreign oil, is compatible with our present infrastructure, and most importantly, is universal in usage and application as oil has been in the past. It appears to be far more superior to the alternative Band-Aid energy solutions presently being promoted and funded by the US DOE such as fuel cells, gasohol, hybrids, ethanol, methanol, bio-diesel, and definitely biomass such as wood chips, stalks and switch grass. This technology can use any type of oil extracted and/or produced including fossil. seed, grain, vegetable and a host of others, all in an unrefined state as the oil only acts as a carrier of this small air bubble. The technological process simply combust (Burn) this small air bubble that is entrained in the oil. The process does not burn the oil (Fluid) itself.
Perhaps Washington would do something if many people called their Congressman and asked the reason why this technology is not being pursued. It is possible with this technology to drive across country for less than $10.00 and emit no greenhouse gases.
I have only just started looking into this ethanol debate, and it is for person reasons. I have developed car problems, and ended up sitting on the side of the road, and it took me over a week of not being able to drive more than 3 miles at a time to find out the cause. I researched the factory tech bullitins, and found one that listed what my car was doing, and it said to test the gas for over 10% ethanol, and then I found out the station I was buying my gas at switched to a 15% ethanol blend just prior to my car problems. All the things my car is doing I have found listed as side effects of Ethanol, that most of which are denied by those supporting it’s use. I didn’t do a scientfic test, I just filled up at the wrong station and messed up my car that I am still trying to get fixed.