Jul
08
I know that the earlier model and many foreign cars (until recently) were not prepared to accept a different fuel form.
These cars run rough, have numerous mechanical issues.
But, now with this added information, has anyone investigated what the potential damage to any automobile would be? Does this “fuel” flush through the system fast enough to prevent damage? How about a car that gets little usage?
IDK, it would seem to me the metals are very thin and I would believer that there are stagnant areas along the fuel route.
7 Comments to "What’s it do to cars then?"
Please share your thoughts
Filed in: Hybrids, Automobiles, Alternative Energy, Renewable Fuel, Ethanol
Ethanol has been an additive in many U.S. states for over 10 years.
Automotive fuel systems are now designed for it.
The problems were with plastic seals, not designed for alcohol,
that were soluble in it. - Kits are available for older cars.
If you’re concerned with autos that get little use, you’ve probably used
a ‘gas line anti-freeze` in your tank in winter. - It’s ethanol.
Ethanol has the property of absorbing water while remaining flammable
until concentrations reach 50% or so while keeping the water from freezing.
It also renders the water miscible with the gasoline for lower levels of contamination.
Anyone having raced cars, using ethanol, know very well the negatives using it. It is corrosive and must be flushed from the crankcase, because of inevitable blowby, by changing the oil each time it is run.
This goes back many years,
MoonMan
I’m quite familiar with Brazilian ethanol as fuel. Initially, when it was first introduced Brazil several decades ago, people had to adjust their carburetors for it to avoid knocks. Then, people discovered that, as alcohol burns, it produces a substance that corrodes any metallic motor parts, not derived from iron. However, Ford, followed by other car makers, developed engines in the early ’80’s that were resistant to this and produced cars that ran only on alcohol. I had one of these for years, and it gave excellent service. More recently, one of the carmakers in Brazil has put out a hybrid: it can run either only on gas or on alcohol. There are only two drawbacks:
1. Alcohol-powered cars don’t get quite as good mpg. as gasoline burning ones, so the price of the alcohol has to be compensatory.
2. Below 70ยบ Farenheit, alcohol doesn’t ignite easily; therefore, these cars had a one-quart bottle for gasoline and a switch to inject a little gas at startup to heat up the motor. Afterwards, they ran entirely on alcohol.
I saw a TV show on cable (Discovery or Science Channel) about this a few years ago. To run on pure ethanol a car would need to have Stainless steel fuel lines and an Epoxy or other inert plastic lined fuel tank. The difference in cost if the parts are installed at manufacture is about $12. I believe that is the standard the GM Ethanol ready vehicles are being manufactured to today.
Various race cars use pure alcohol for fuel. I am not a racing fan but understand Indy cars and certain classes of dragsters use Ethanol.
Multi-fuel is not new. Army trucks have employed the ability since the 1960s. In peacetime Diesel is used, but they have a dial that can be turned to different settings. I believe they will also run on cooking oil, JP-4 or JP-6, etc. Whatever is available and will run a turbocharged high compression glow plug style marine engine can be used. Any residual gases or in-flamables are safely burned off by a spark plug in the exhaust manifold.
Detroit has been making flex fuel cars for years. Mainly for export to Brazil. Ethanol is corrosive, but to fix a car so that it won’t be a problem PLUS reprogramming the computer to handle ethanol fuel will add about $100 to the cost of the car. Running on pure ethanol won’t give you the same mpg you get from gasoline,it’s less, but the cost of ethanol is so much lower than gasoline that it more than makes up the difference. I think a gallon of ethanol costs $1 while gas now is knocking on $3.
Brazil has been doing this for over 20 years and has reduced reliance to foreign energy from over 50% to under 15%.
The only reason I can see the oil companies being so reticent is the fact that they are run by accountants, there are no visionaries. They all want retirement packages like that guy from Exxon. They are not about to improve the industry for the sake of the future, not if it means they will loose out.
All cars running on ethanol should address 2 problems not present when running on gasoline. These are corrosion and cold starting.
Corrosion is addressed by plating or coating fuel tanks, pumps, carburators or injectors and using special plastic and rubber fuel lines.
Cold starting is usually achieved by staring with gasoline and then switching to ethanol.
Mixtures of gasoline and ethanol will proportionally suffer from above problems.
I have indeed personal experience on ethanol. My car is a Passat 87 (Dasher) originally designed to run on ethanol. It has 110,000 miles and runs fine. I start it with temps. as low as 45 F on gasoline. (It has a small 2 liter plastic gasoline tank). Corrosion problems are mainly a not too well applied nickel coating in the carburettor, which is peeling off slowly. Ethanol fuel tank coating is fine.
Currently I buy ethanol fuel (93% ethanol + 7% water) for 60 to 65 cents a liter
Much agreement with posts prior to mine about both the petroleum industry’s revolting attempts to prevent the use of anything but fossil fuels. Even if the stuff about the corrosiveness of ethanol is true, you simply cannot abandon plans for its use when it stands the chance of helping so many of this country’s ills.
Whether it’s an alternative to ethanol or something used in addition to it, biodiesel simply has to be given consideration. The mileage an engine gets on it is just marginally lower than regular diesel fuel. And let’s remember that the processed deep fryer oil that it uses would simply be thrown out otherwise.
There is a show on Discovery Channel called “Dirty Work” and in one installment, you see how one man processes the fryer oil in his garage (albeit one with a high ceiling) for a diesel pick-up he’s owned since the early 1980s.
If you can, catch it.
Let’s be clear — hydrogen for cars, despite what Dubya says, is not the answer.